Theoretical Tuesday: D23 Piece Offerings

Article by Sean Wilkinson,

a.k.a. the Ticketmaster

So, I began writing this post last Thursday, and due to the ambitious length I had in mind and family responsibilities, I was unable to get it finished in time for Fan Theory Friday. I was going to wait another week so I could get it done properly...but then D23 happened, making my original speculative content obsolete. However, since I would rather smother a campfire with my face than delete hours of work, I decided to release what I have done already, but with a few Ticketmaster's Notes interjected as to what I got right and wrong. This is not my first foray into fan theories, and I am rarely accurate on my own, but that won't stop me from trying. Here's the (almost, because if I included every MCU-related link, Friday would be over by the time I was done) complete list before we get started:

- Supernatural Season 14: Stay Tuned #10: Five Supernatural Season 14 Theories I Came Up With (Spoilers)

- WandaVision: WandaVision Wednesday #19: Saving the Messenger

- The "Cage'd In Hell" Hypothesis: Just the Ticket #109: One Night At Willy's

- Spider-Man: No Way Home: Theoretical Thursday: No Way Home

- No Way Home and Chucky Season 1: Fan Theory Friday: Spidey vs. Chucky

What I'd like to do here is start with Phase Four as a chunk and speculate on the teams they are hinting at, then go through Phases Five and Six film by film and give my thoughts on plot elements, villains, etc.

Ticketmaster's Note #1: about that "Friday would be over by the time I was done" thing, I am a sad, naive, ironically prescient child worthy of God's laughter. Let's get started.

Phase Four So Far

Much like She-Hulk so far, the fourth phase has appeared unfocused and like it's doing a lot of setup with no payoff in sight. Sorry to soapbox here, but before we knew that Nick Fury had an idea for an initiative, Marvel were just trying stuff, keeping it loosely connected, and hoping for the best. But then, "the best" became less of a hope and more of a business model. The idea became a team, and that team grew and changed and was challenged by increasingly bigger stakes as their story approached its Endgame. Now, that story is over, and the fandom have switched from enjoying the ride to wanting to get off the train (appropriate MCU metaphor), and document every visible surface of the tunnel so they could map the "end of the line" before the ride was over. What they haven't realized yet is that Phase Four is the beginning of a new story. A new Saga. One greater in scope than the last, and just as experimental and unfocused as the "Infinity Saga" was when it began. The difference is that, because the fandom has become so speculation-focused, Marvel have to be stealthier with their team setups than "member is the title character of their own movie/show." Not that there isn't some of that, too.

Case in point, let's start with Madame Hydra (Julia Louis-Dreyfuss) and General Ross' (William Hurt) Thunderbolts. WandaVision brought us the White Vision in its finale. Through the course of Falcon & the Winter Soldier and Black Widow, we were introduced to Yelena Belova (Florence Pugh), Taskmaster (Olga Kurylenko), Red Guardian (David Harbour), U.S. Agent (Wyatt Russell), and the returning Baron Zemo (Daniel Bruhl). Following the plot of this, Yelena briefly joined forces with Echo (Alaqua Cox, getting her own eponymous series in Phase Five) to get joint revenge on Hawkeye. And because every team needs (at least) one Hulk, She-Hulk brought back the Abomination (Tim Roth) and introduced Titania (Jameela Jamil). Another, outlying possibility is Moon Knight, as his base personality (?) is a mercenary and his third personality is also of questionable character. I'm not saying they will all be members of the Thunderbolts (movie cofirmed for the Phase Five finale), as a few of them are reduntant, but they are all possibilities, as are small-time recurring players like Batroc.

Ticketmaster's Note #2: While I was typing way too much, sleeping way too much, studying, helping my family, and generally sticking my head in the sand under the rock that is lodged in my buttcrack (because when you need a metaphor, use three and make the last one as visually vulgar as it is hilarious), Kevin Fygie/Feeg/Fayj/Fiege announced the lineup of the Thunderbolts:

- I completely slept on Winter Soldier and Ghost being considered for the team.

/ Madame Hydra (she goes by her pompous, "Eloisa Francesca Contessa Melissa Banana Fo-Fanna the Third, but you can call me Dot" civilian name in the MCU, but that's what they call her in the comics, and it could be the source of some interesting reactions from her teammates) was someone I considered a comic-relief bankroller, rather than an active participant in...activity. Maybe Julia Louis-Dreyfus will surprise us?

+ US Agent, Yelena, Red Guardian, and Taskmaster were obvious picks for me in light of recent Disney Plus MCU content.

- Not having General Ross confirmed (his nickname is the title of the movie) is a bit confusing. Maybe they're saving the Red Hulk reveal for when trailer time rolls around? Maybe he's the villain?

- White Vision, Baron Zemo, Moon Knight, and Echo are curious absences as well, though some of these do make a bit of sense (perhaps Zemo dies in the new Captain America? Moon Knight could be put to better use on another team, and Echo has her own series and journey of discovery to deal with).

- Honestly, Abomination, Titania, and Batroc were just recency bias and me throwing names at the wall.

Young/All-New, All-Different Avengers - this is not confirmed to have a movie yet, but the potential roster is there, with possible multiversal assembly. Billy and Tommy (a.k.a. Speed and Wiccan) were introduced in WandaVision and made a brief return in Multiverse Of Madness as their Variants. We also got Miss America Chavez (who is a Khmer Taj student by the end of the film and has multiverse travel powers) out of this. Sam Wilson/Captain America and Bucky Barnes/Winter Soldier could also be on the team as the elder mentor figures. Then there is Kate Bishop filling the Hawkeye role, Ms. Marvel, and possibly Yelena, Echo, or Taskmaster joining after the...questionable ethics of their original team go too far. And then there's Riri Williams/Ironheart, who will be introduced in Black Panther: Wakanda Forever. What the hell, let's throw Kid Loki in there, too.

X-Men: with all the Madripoor hints in Falcon & Winter Soldier and Moon Knight, Patrick Stewart's cameo in MOM, the watch from that auction at the beginning of Hawkeye, Kamala being revealed as a mutant, and that social media easter egg in She-Hulk about Wolverine getting in a bar fight, it's inevitable that we get the X-Men in the MCU eventually.

Ticketmaster's Note #3: In the D23 panel for Wakanda Forever, Angela Bassett (Queen Ramonda in the franchise) said this was the "calm before the crazy Storm." Maybe a post-credits spoiler? Or a character hint? Or Marvel just being meta-cheeky and screwing with us speculators?

Illuminati: They've already been in the MCU, consisting of Reed Richards, Black Bolt, Professor X, Monica Rambeau, Baron Mordo, and Captain Carter. It's possible that a less multiversal version (or a replacement lineup, after Wanda killed them all) could appear in the future. But I don't have a roster in mind (aside from Monica Rambeau, Namor, and the Hulk) because all I can think of right now are the...

Savage Avengers: this is basically the monsters and magic Avengers, with characters like Abomination, Dr. Strange, Blade, Black Knight, Moon Knight, Sylvie, Werewolf by Night (to be introduced in the upcoming MCU Halloween Special), Wanda, Agatha, Dottie Jones (?), and Clea as potential MCU members. This also brings up another idea, as nearly half of these characters are women.

A-Force: more likely to appear as multiverse cameos than to get feature focus, this is a team of female Avengers from across the multiverse that got their own comic series after the last Secret Wars event. Just name off every female character from the possible rosters above and you have your team.

Heroes for Hire/Defenders: I previously tackled this one in Just the Ticket #114: The Black Phone (& MCU Stuff), so go check out that link. On to a relevant villain team....

The Hand: As I mentioned in the above link, the Netflix Daredevil cast are making their way to the MCU proper. It only stands to reason that, when the new Daredevil series hits Disney+ in the next phase, the Hand gets involved. But I think there's going to be some retconning involved because the MCU already has a criminal organization of ninja assassins: The Ten Rings. I think that, with Shang-Chi having claimed the bracelets for himself, and the image dilution by the terrorists in Iron Man and by AIM in Iron Man 3, there is no longer a need for weaponized jewelry-relevant branding. So why not have Shang-Chi's sister (who is now running the group) rename them to The Hand?

Why is Hulk Going to Sakaar? I don't know when they're going to fit this in (maybe Phase Six?), but my theory is that Hulk is going to Sakaar to stop Skaar. You might be asking yourselves two more questions: "Why is that name so unoriginal?" and "Who or what is Skaar?" Readers of the "World War Hulk" storyline and viewers of Hulk and the Agents Of SMASH might remember that Skaar was billed as the "Son of Hulk," and was conceived in the comics when Bruce Banner got taken over by his Hulk side and had to be shot into space after he went on a global rampage. This was adapted into a sib-plot of Age Of Ultron and the bulk of Thor: Ragnarok. So, yeah. I think an angsty, gamma-enraged Skaar is unleashing his abandonment issues on the citizens of Sakaar, and they went to Hulk (which caused the car accident that turned Jennifer Walters into She-Hulk) to try to talk him down. If anything tops skybeams, train imagery, Terminator references, and "that name is stupid" jokes in terms of MCU frequency, it's daddy issues. And this is the mother of all daddy issues. Also, because Topaz has been done dirty by the MCU, I really want Topaz to be Skaar's MCU mother.

Phase Five

Ant-Man & the Wasp: Quantumania: Who is Bill Murray playing? We know the titular characters, an older Cassie Lang (add her to the Young Avengers roster above), and Kang will appear in the film, and the AIM leader, MODOK, will also appear, possibly as a joke villain. But which villain is Bill Murray playing? It could be a deception by Marvel to avoid revealing that he will be playing MODOK. As I joked in Timely Thorsday #20: The Silence Of the Loki, he could be playing an older, evil Mobius variant (a version of Agent 7M from the comics?). But I could also see Bill Murray playing Egghead or Mr. Hyde.

Ticketmaster's Note #4: Bill Murray got some Quantumania footage at D23 (not publicly available yet), in which he is supposedly shown in a "king" role as a character who might have been romantically involved with Janet Van Dyne while she was in the Quantum Realm. I still like my Agent 7M hypothesis, but despite fan analysis that my new guess is too powerful for the MCU, it's more likely that Bill Murray could be playing Molecule Man. It makes total sense that someone with molecular manipulation powers could be seen as a king in the Quantum Realm. If they threw in a "crossing the streams" joke, I would cringe with joy.

Guardians Of the Galaxy Vol. 3: Rocket will get captured by the High Evolutionary (along with Cosmo the Space Dog) and Quill has to get the Guardians back together (including the past Gamora because drama) to rescue him. Meanwhile, the Sovreign sends Adam Warlock after the Guardians for revenge against them (and especially Rocket for stealing their power source and vandalizing their planet at the beginning of Vol. 2).

The Marvels has an obvious starting point, with family comedy when the Khans find their daughter's idol in her bedroom with a big hole in the wall. Noor energy is possibly connected to the No Way Home finale (purple, crystalline rifts in reality, plus we know the bangle and/or the Djinn can cross time and dimensions) and may be connected to Miss America's powers. Plus there was the post-credits scene from Shang-Chi that said Carol and Bruce had been tracking the Rings' power signature through space. And Nick Fury is in the movie, so the Skrulls are in the movie. In addition to all of the known casting, there are two undisclosed roles that will be filled by Zawe Ashton and Park Seo-Joon. I think it would be cool if there was a female Super-Skrull who can use the Marvels' powers against them (instead of the Fantastic Four, who will get their own movie in Phase Six), and the main villain could be a more culturally sensitive take on Fin Fang Foom.

Ticketmaster's Note #5: There was apparently special footage of these films, as well, but it's not publicly available, so I can't give myself any points for accuracy. Vague creativity based on obvious character cues? Yes.

Blade: We know that Mahershala Ali will play him in the movie, and that the Ebony Blade will feature in the film, which hints that Dane Whitman/Black Knight could be in the film, too. And that's about it. This might be a good launching point for the Savage Avengers team to show up in Phase Six, but it's too early to speculate on anything major. The only other thing I could think of was a possible Morbius cameo, or to have that fragment of Venom from the No Way Home post-credits scene finally matter (because of the Ebony Blade/Necrosword/Symbiote connection), or for them to just be super obvious and on the nose and have Dracula be the villain.

Ticketmaster's Note #6: Blade didn't receive any attention at D23, so that's still all we know.

Captain America: New World Order: In the wake of the Secret Invasion miniseries, Sam, Bucky, the freed Widows, and Red Guardian take on leftover Foom zealots, Zemo, the Power Broker, and some street-level Thunderbolts members. Pepper in some racial tensions with the good Skrull refugees for commentary purposes. Nothing has been shared about this film beyond its confirmation and the two leads, but this is what I think is going to happen. Plus, having two tactical villains at odds with one another while the heroes struggle in the middle is a perfect lead-in to my next theory....

Thunderbolts: See my thoughts on the team line-up under the Phase Four section. We're most likely going to get the namesake character turning into Red Hulk here because someone has to keep an eye on the Abomination even though he said in She-Hulk that he's in full control and totally reformed (which is how great cerebral villains set up their betrayal of the team). But who bankrolled the Superhuman Law Division on She-Hulk? Who orchestrated Jennifer Walters being assigned to Abomination's parole hearing? Who set Zemo and the Power Broker against each other in the last movie? Who's a villain from Hulk's past that we never saw again after he was teased in the Incredible Hulk? That's right; I think the villain of the Thunderbolts movie will be Tim Blake Nelson reprising his role as Samuel "Mr. Blue" Sterns, a.k.a. The Leader!

Ticketmaster's Note #7: I already broke down how wrong I was about the Thunderbolts lineup. I was also wrong about the lineup for Captain America: NWO. The heroes of NWO are now confirmed to be Sam Wilson/Captain America, Joaquin Torres (a minor character in the Falcon/Winter Soldier series, and a legacy Falcon in the comics), and Isaiah Bradley (see my thoughts on this Falcon/Winter Soldier episode here). There was no mention of Secret Invasion fallout, the Red Room survivors, Baron Zemo, the Power Broker, or any Thunderbolts tie-ins, either. But even though I got his movie appearance wrong, I did guess that The Leader would be the villain. I'm hyped for Phase Five now.

What If...?: The lost Season 1 episode was a confirmed inclusion. Many are speculating that Chadwick Boseman's brother could pull a Furious 6 and stand in for his brother in Wakanda Forever, but I think it's more likely that we get more Black Panther-centric stories in this show with Boseman's brother providing the vocal talent. Also, Strange agreeing to operate on Rhodey, Quill taking his mother's hand and stopping Ego's Celestial infection, Hulk's snap working, Thanos snapping the other half, Spider-Man not going to Strange, Zemo sparing the Winter Soldiers, and continuations of some of the first season stories would all be cool concepts.

Secret Invasion: They make Fin Fang Foom an ancient, evil Skrull "deity," and his followers have taken over the world in an effort to revive or summon him. Loose adaptation of the comics storyline ensues, leading into The Marvels and feeding the plot of NWO.

Echo: After Hawkeye, the title character goes on a journey of self-discovery (maybe learning she's connected to Namor somehow?), goes looking for Kingpin, and gets recruited to the Thunderbolts.

Loki: Our...hero?...is stuck in an alternate-reality TVA and tries to reconnect with Sylvie, because to love others, you must first learn to love yourself. Rafael Casal is said to have an undisclosed, "major role." This could be a hint to Jonathan Majors having played He Who Remains/Kang in previous MCU properties, and Casal's character being a stealth Kang Variant within the TVA (perhaps Victor Timely, Immortus, or Rama-Tut).

Ironheart: All we can surmise at this point is that it will be Riri Williams vs. The Hood, as those are the only two confirmed characters in the series.

Ticketmaster's Note #8: From Secret Invasion down to this note, the above shows all got love at D23. We're still in teaser territory with Secret Invasion, so not much is known about it beyond Nick Fury and Rhodey being involved (Don Cheadle also teased that an adaptation of "Armor Wars" is being workshopped), and whatever fans can glean from the comics on which the series is based. Kingpin will have a presence in Echo (Vincent D'Onofrio also surprised fans by doing a Daredevil: Born Again confirmation with Charlie Cox). Loki Season 2 got a peculiar cast addition in Ke Huy Quan, playing "a TVA archivist." Also, I probably got a post-D23 refresh on the MCU wiki before I wrote the Ironheart blurb because The Hood wasn't confirmed until D23 Day 2.

Agatha: Coven of Chaos: This will be either an alternate perspective take on WandaVision, centering around her strange life with Ralph Boehner, a follow-up that explains what happened after she was left Hexed as Westview's nosey neighbor, or both. We know it will be a dark comedy with Kathryn Hahn reprising her role, and that's about it.

Ticketmaster's Note #9: Neither Agatha, nor the Daredevil reboot got much coverage, as they are not in production yet, but Born Again will be eighteen episodes, and fans got a look at Daredevil's upcoming appearance in She-Hulk.

Phase Six and Final Thoughts

So far, we only know that Phase Six will feature the Fantastic Four movie and two Avengers films: The Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars. Based on this information, it stands to reason that the F4 villain will be Doctor Doom (though whether from Sony's Development Hell solo film, the Julian McMahon incarnation from 2005--an interpretation I loved--the 4Stick version, or as an MCU original, it's too soon to say), and he has already proven surprisingly formidable in the comic book "Secret Wars." As for filling out the Phase, Armor Wars (which hasn't been added back to Wikipedia since the ComicCon update) is a good candidate, sequels are being conceived for Shang-Chi and Eternals, as are a PG-13 Deadpool film and a "mutant-centered" film. Many of the teams I speculated above could receive their own films, and Hulk could finally get another standalone film to deal with that Skaar problem. Maybe we even get Spider-Man: Miles From Home. On the streaming side of things, though (in addition to the aforementioned--and confirmed--Armor Wars series, Wakanda, Marvel Zombies, Wonder Man, Nova, and a third season of What If...? are possibilities, as are two Spider-Man prequel series that are already in production and have titles (Freshman Year and Sophomore Year).

And my real final thought? I'm exhausted.

Ticketmaster,

Out of energy for the night.